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Diff. Lube


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24 replies to this topic

#1 EdR

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 08:08 AM

I've heard of this before. But has anyone tried removing and cleaning out all of the grease and filled the propel units with differential oil instead? Any advice

#2 Moxymo

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Posted 06 September 2017 - 09:26 PM

I've been wondering myself if the lube used is the best to use . Mine came lubed with a white teflon based grease that won't stay on the gears as it should . Yes it is lightweight and does not add surface friction due to density , but within a few hours of use I can remove the covers and see it no longer covers the gear contacts either . What are you thinking EdR ? Something like a lithium based bearing grease or a light weight gear grease ?



#3 EdR

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

Not even grease. Oil. Fill the unit up. It should be sealed so it wouldn't leak.

#4 Moxymo

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Posted 07 September 2017 - 01:10 PM

I see your point . I just wonder if there would be too much resistance to help overall . It would definately be quiet .



#5 mike333h

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Posted 11 September 2017 - 09:18 AM

I have wondered that as well.. I am sure it would void the warrantee and would add few pounds to the unit.



#6 Mikem

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Posted 12 September 2017 - 09:57 PM

 I don't know if it voids warranty. I am doubtful that 80-90 gear oil can be shown to cause any component damage. I suspect Native does not suggest the use of oil because any leakage into the water would certainly be cause for legal problems of 'water pollution'. 

 

 I have been using 80-90 differential oil in the upper housing where pedal and upper transmission gears are located and in the lower propeller housing that holds the lower transmission gear and propeller cartridge. I also put 80-90 differential oil inside the propeller cartridge itself.

 I have been doing this since 201 units were introduced and now do it to 401 and 501 units. 

 

If you preform this conversion be sure and 'FREQUENTLY' inspect unit for any 80-90 seepage. The propeller shaft seal and the pedal crank shaft seals are potential leakage spots. 


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#7 EdR

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:06 PM

I would assume it runs a lot quieter?

#8 nativenut

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 10:05 PM

I agree about the stock grease not staying put.  I re-grease after my usual 2 mile trek.  By the last stretch to shore, its already making grinding noises.  

 

 



#9 Mikem

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 05:13 PM

 ​It is a bit quieter, adds no measurable weight and there is no need to remove teflon based grease.

 

I do not fill the housings. Just enough so the oil can be just in contact to the gears when the unit is in the boat, dropped down in place and peddled.

 80-90 will 'climb up the gear surfaces as long as it has just a little contact to the oil. The other benefit of a small amount of oil in the propeller cartridge will prevent the rusting of bearings and prop shaft when prop lip seal is compromised.

 

​ I recommend checking for water inside units at least twice a year to my customers.

 

If you are concerned about Warranty wait for 2 year warranty to expire.


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#10 mike333h

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 09:06 AM

 

 

 I have been using 80-90 differential oil in the upper housing where pedal and transmission gears are located and in the lower propeller housing that holds the lower transmission gear and propeller cartridge. I also put 80-90 differential oil inside the propeller cartridge itself.

 

 

 

 

 ​It is a bit quieter, adds no measurable weight and there is no need to remove teflon based grease.

 

I do not fill the housings. Just enough so the oil can be just in contact to the gears when the unit is in the boat, dropped down in place and peddled.

 80-90 will 'climb up the gear surfaces as long as it has just a little contact to the oil. The other benefit of a small amount of oil in the propeller cartridge will prevent the rusting of bearings and prop shaft when prop lip seal is compromised.

 

 

 

 

I do not think that I am quite following what you're saying.  You said that you do not fill the housing but you put oil in the top and bottom...The whole thing is hollow so wouldn't that mean it all goes just to the bottom, or does enough stay in the top transmission gears to suffice? 

 

How much do you recommend putting in, because I have seriously contemplated using oil?

 

Mike



#11 Mikem

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 11:38 AM

Top & Bottom.

 

Top..... pedal- crank arm housing. 

Bottom.....Lower propeller housing. 

 

So far, I have not found the 80-90 to migrate from the top pedal-crank arm housing into the center transmission shaft housing.

 (This is the 'leg' that joins the top..... pedal-crank arm housing to the bottom..... lower propeller housing.)

 

So, yes the top and bottom have separate levels. There are no 'seals' to prevent oil migration, but so far my experience has been that the bearings tight fit prevents the top from draining down to the bottom. 

 

80-90 in Top housing is not up to the service plug hole in height.

80-90 in  Bottom housing high enough to cover the small transmission gear which is on the end of the propeller cartridge. 


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#12 EdR

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Posted 15 September 2017 - 01:15 PM

You just leave what ever grease is in the unit?

#13 nativenut

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Posted 16 September 2017 - 05:32 PM

I think I'll try out the gear oil in the lower housing and inside the cartridge.  After my last outing I found a small bit of saltwater inside the lower casting.  The cartridge shaft seal looked fine and felt fine but it wasn't sealing all the water out.  It only took one time for the bearings to start rusting.  Since the bearings will be surrounded by gear oil, I don't think I'll replace them at this time.  



#14 Moxymo

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Posted 17 September 2017 - 09:12 PM

Won't leaving existing grease in contaminate the 80-90w gear oil ? Also , what gear oil are you using
? Does having a fair amount of gear oil add pedal resistance and slow you down or cause foaming ?

#15 Mikem

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Posted 21 September 2017 - 05:37 PM

 As long as the Teflon grease is clean (you can use a magnet to find any metal contamination) it will mix with 80-90 differential oil.

 

On new gear replacements I put lite coating of Teflon grease on gear face and then add 80-90.

 

I have found the 80-90 to be quieter than just Teflon grease and feel no pedal resistance.

 

For the most part I have to say 'Smoother and Quieter'

 

 80-90 will become 'thicker' with cooler temperatures. Don't have much of that problem in South Florida. B) 

Not familiar with 'foaming' nor what it does. 



#16 Moxymo

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Posted 22 September 2017 - 10:43 AM

I use the kayak down to upper 20's so that will probably not be too cold . What do you use for gear oil ? I saw a site with comparison testing and was just curious .

 

http://www.lastgreat...-comparison.pdf



#17 Mikem

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Posted 23 September 2017 - 05:38 PM

I have been an Amsoil dealer since 1975. 



#18 Moxymo

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:09 PM

Why do you not use the 75-90w gear lube instead ? It seams like it would be better for this application as there is not the stress on the gear box that a truck or car would have . Also , other than checking the oil visually , would you ever have to change it ? It seems like a win , win to me . Never having to keep applying a lube that as nativenut has said will come off in a short time . My trips are on the average of 8-10 miles , and in two trips ,  the grinding noise from dry gear contacts comes right back .



#19 Mikem

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Posted 26 September 2017 - 03:26 PM

I see no problem with any of the differential oils out there. I prefer the synthetic because it won't mix with water and cold temperatures have much less affect. (not a problem for south Florida) 



#20 Moxymo

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Posted 08 October 2017 - 01:40 PM

I am tired of pulling the plugs off and lubing every time before going out , so I will try this . I will post my thoughts here after giving it a try . Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice .






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